For a few years, Emily and her moms, Sammy and her family, Cara and her moms, most of the Gold-Doyle household, and Gerald and his wife would get together for Summer gatherings and Christmas get togethers. And then the reunions started to fade. Throughout the course of this experience definitions of family evolve and change. What is family? You'll hear thirteen answers to this question! Plus Hillary quotes Ann Hartman again and reflects on a Summer spent indoors making a podcast.
For a few years, Emily and her moms, Sammy and her family, Cara and her moms, most of the Gold-Doyle household, and Gerald and his wife would get together for Summer gatherings and Christmas get togethers. And then the reunions started to fade. Throughout the course of this experience definitions of family evolve and change. What is family? You'll hear thirteen answers to this question! Plus Hillary quotes Ann Hartman again and reflects on a Summer spent indoors making a podcast.
This is the eighth (and final) chapter of the big story that takes up most of Rashomon Season 2. You will hear multiple families telling every side of multiple stories, all having to do with the early days of sperm banks and how it effected the lives of the families that used them. From Season 2, Episode 2 onward, it is important to listen to them in order to get the full story.
Before you listen to this one, listen to:
S2E02: Sharon and Sammy
S2E03: Emily, Cathy and Nancy
S2E04: Cara, Susan and Carol Ann
S2E05: Sammy, Emily and Cara
S2E06: Rebecca, Matthew, Colette and Laura
S2E07: The Families Are All Right
and
S2E08: Gerald
Rashomon is produced and hosted by Hillary Rea
Thank you to Anny Celsi for recording on the West Coast. And thank you to Sharon Sass, Sammy Sass, Emily McGranachan, Cathy McGranachan, Nancy Smith, Cara Swan, Susan Swan, Carol Ann Dalto, Rebecca Doyle, Matthew Doyle, Laura Gold, Colette Doyle, Dorothy Mauer and Gerald Layden.
Music in this episode is by Paul Defiglia
Podcast artwork is by Thom Lessner
Theme music is by Ryan Culinane courtesy of the Free Music Archive
Rashomon is an independent podcast. Become a supporting member of this podcast over on Patreon: https://patreon.com/rashomonpod We have member levels beginning at $1/month
Check out our website: https://rashomonpodcast.com
Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram: @rashomonpod
Please share this podcast episode with a friend and/or subscribe to us, rate and review on Apple Podcasts. Thank you for listening! There's one more episode of this season coming your way.
Hillary [00:00:15] What is truth? How may we know it? Or even is there such a thing as truth and may we ever know it? The editor takes the position that there are many truths and many ways of knowing. We can enhance our understanding by listening to and reporting the narratives, the stories that make order and sense of human experience --.
Hillary [00:00:41] OK, I need to pause this intro. It's the end of summer and I feel like I've lost all track of time. I also feel like I've lost it. Rashomon Season t started at the end of April, and then since the episodes in May, I've released them every other week on a consistent schedule. And in my dream world, I had made all these episodes well before the first one was released and I was spending the entire summer on a beach reading back issues of The New Yorker. My reality is far from this experience. I've been making new episodes in the two week time span between one's coming out and the night before. I'm usually mixing and then frantically writing the show notes. I've pretty much been in my house all summer in my audio closet where I am now, or editing in my office while my cat Natto snores very loudly right next to me. And this preamble is not a complaint. I have fun making my show. Would I prefer to make it with a sizable budget that includes a line item to pay myself, to have a team of collaborators and perhaps even a network to help me put this out and reach new audiences? Absolutely. But what I learned is that I can make a show that I'm proud of. I can make good work within an unrealistic time constraint, and I can help to tell the stories of many different people connected through family and a shared experience.
Hillary [00:02:10] In the trailer for this season and in season 2, episode 2, I mention Anne Hartman, the social worker and writer whose essay The Many Ways of Knowing, launched me into the headspace of making this season of my show. There were so many things that I wanted to do to help to tell this story, like research the history of sperm donation in this country. Interview the doctor and the midwife from Woman Care, interview lawyers who were familiar with the laws that pertain to second parent adoptions and LGBTQ rights in the 80s, 90s and early aughts in Massachusetts. But with my production schedule, it was not possible to bring in these other elements. But that's OK, I'm happy sharing story for story sake, and this is a story told through a web of individual perspectives, those perspectives meld, diverge, cross paths, change course. And that's what will shape our own perspective as the listener and help us to make connections to our own experiences. Storytelling is a way of knowing.
Matthew [00:03:18] You know, it's like if you feel some certain way about a situation, you know, don't let that restrict you from learning about it or, you know, just, you know, just talking with people, you know, hearing, hearing their side, hearing their story, seeing what they struggle with. And maybe people will be able to see their side and understand that it may be harder for them to be open with other people because they're afraid of what other people feel about them.
Hillary [00:03:52] You are listening to Rashomon, a podcast where one family tells every side of the same story, and I'm your host, Hillary Rea. And in this season, we've heard more than one family tell every side of a whole bunch of stories. And this is the final chapter of the series that begins with Season 2, episode 2. So make sure that you've gone back and listened from the beginning before you listen to this episode. This is Gerry's Girls.
Hillary [00:04:24] This is it, the final chapter.
Collette [00:04:26] It's almost like, um, it's not a fairy tale, but it's really an amazing story.
Hillary [00:04:35] Here's a speedy recap. You met four families, Sammy and Sharon, Emily, Cathy and Nancy, Cara, Susan and Carol Ann and Rebecca, Matthew, Laura and Collette. And you met the sperm donor, Gerald, who helped each set of parents conceive. After varying levels of difficulty and obstacles like a missing in action midwife and a closed down clinic, all of the donor siblings met each other and all of their moms met each other. And at different times, they all met Gerald and his partner, Dorothy.
Susan [00:05:06] It's sort of a kaleidoscope in a way. You know, it's like things come together and then it twists and things fall apart. And then it twists again and comes together again.
Hillary [00:05:15] And once they all came into each other's lives, there were regular family gatherings,
Sammy [00:05:20] like I'm just having this one memory of all being in Cape Cod together.
Hillary [00:05:24] Sammy remembers this trip happening before the twins were in the picture.
Sammy [00:05:28] And just laughing with the moms, you know, because there is like all this sperm donor stuff. And that's very significant. But what feels bigger than that to me is like the culture of being raised by lesbian moms in the 80s. And so all these lesbians were like sitting together on this deck, like drinking beer and watching the sunset and just laughing about the lives that they had made. And then like meeting this man who they had gotten pregnant with and they were like, oh, my God, like I made a baby with that person, you know? And there's there's just so much like humor about it.
Hillary [00:06:00] There were one or two summers where Sammy and her family and Cara and her moms joined Emily at Family Week in Provincetown. By this time, Emily was a volunteer there and her moms, Cathy and Nancy, continued to go because of how much it meant to their family when she was younger. And one of those summers, Emily was setting up a presentation of sorts. It was happening in a club space that was right next to the hotel where everyone was staying.
Emily [00:06:25] And I walked to the back and I look out the window and right behind that little club space, it's a hotel and there's a pool and the beach is right there. And there, you know, is a little bar. So I look out the window and there are my moms and my donor sisters. And the whole families are out there and they're all just like sipping cocktails, sunning themselves in the pool. And I'm like dripping sweat, you know, lifting kids up over this and that. And I look outside, they're all just like waving and like sipping their drinks. And I'm like, OK, guys. So like, so they had a great time.
Hillary [00:06:51] And the great times continued, including get togethers at Christmas.
Cara [00:06:56] I forget how many years we've been doing this now, but we've spent Christmas Day together, which is really nice.
Hillary [00:07:03] This usually happened at Cara, Susan and Carol Ann's house. And there were times when Gerald and Dorothy and some of their extended family would join them.
Cara [00:07:12] I mean, Christmas is for family and they feel like family. I mean, they are my family. And that's happened over time.
Hillary [00:07:27] Sammy remembers one specific Christmas moment, everyone was there sitting around sharing stories of things that happened in their lives before they all knew each other and collecting the stories of how they all came together.
Sammy [00:07:42] And so we're all hanging out at Christmas. And then Gerald's cousin, who's also my cousin, who's like so lovely, is we're talking about like, what if we write these stories down? You know, what if we, like, get this story out into the world and then this woman who's his cousin and my cousin is like, you could name the stories "Gerry's Girls." And there was a moment of total silence in the room. And then all of the women at the same time just said, no, like like no, no. That's that's not what this is about. That's not the story here. There was no ill will about it. It was like so joyful and like connective of all the people there. But just the sense of like, yeah, this is an incredible piece of our story. But actually the story of our families are like women making something happen when it wasn't possible to do so.
Sharon [00:08:55] I think the beginning times were the most exciting and fun because we were all finding out about each other and telling each other our stories, and I always find that fascinating anyway. But then it became like, oh, we're all regular people with their stories and we happen to have kids that are related to each other. And it's not that it was no big deal, but the very initial meetings were like, wow, this is hasn't happened before and how did we get here? And it was it was very exciting.
Hillary [00:09:26] Sharon said it was like that for a couple of years.
Sharon [00:09:29] And then it kind of changed in that we didn't spend as much time with them. There wasn't anything negative that happened. But my realization was we didn't really know those kids. We were not raised with those. My kids were not raised with those kids. They happened to be half siblings.
Hillary [00:09:48] After those few years of the larger family gatherings, people started to taper off. Sharon and Sammy spent less time with everyone. And shortly after that, Colette, Laura and Rebecca and Matthew all moved out to California.
Laura [00:10:02] I've always been a very nostalgic person to the point where it was painful. You know, actually, my psychiatrist said actually we call that depression, but I've always thought of it as my personality. And taking Zoloft really helped with that. But moving out here has been the biggest help because I'm not constantly running into my old memories and wanting to go back in time and do it better and different, you know, so for me, it's been especially good.
Hillary [00:10:32] Laura saw California as a new place to focus on the present, and Colette had moved so far away from her large biological family that all of her staying in touch was devoted to them. She had over 50 nieces and nephews.
Collette [00:10:46] So I have kind of a full plate. And when I was working full time, even fuller, and now I am retired. But we're living on the other side of the country and I'm very busy out here in California doing a lot of activities. So that's why if they lived here, if we lived back there, I think that it would be more.
Laura [00:11:05] You know, if you had asked me in the beginning, I would have hoped for deeper connections to have formed. But at the same time, you know, we all already had our lives. And, you know, it just it didn't have a deep impact on our family life. It was a an added bonus, you know, and it's nice. And if the kids had managed to create a deeper connection, I would have been happy about that. But I also, you know, feel like it's still possible in the future. And, you know, you can't force anything. Just has to be what it is.
Collette [00:11:39] I felt like they were family. I, I actually thought we'd have a lot more contact, but they are definitely in my heart and I feel like I wish I did see them more often.
Hillary [00:12:06] In addition to the long distance, the commitment to stay in touch fizzled because of how much energy it took to connect and to organize the gatherings. Most of the get togethers happened at Carol Ann and Susan's house, and Carol Ann felt like a lot of the coordinating fell on the moms.
Carol Ann [00:12:23] For us to be taking the responsibility to make it happen all the time, you know. I felt like the kids in particular needed to step up. I mean, if it was important to them to connect as clearly it had been, then. So that's been a little bit sad for me because I feel like I've lost some family, actually.
Hillary [00:12:45] Carol Ann may have felt like she lost connection with some of the moms like Sharon and Colette and Laura, but for her and Susan, it was easy to stay connected with Emily's mom, Cathy.
Cathy [00:12:55] You know how they had that show? It was called Sister Wives. I call them. I call them my Sister Moms. They are my Sister Moms. No, what do I call them? Sister Moms? Because they're sisters, we're moms of sisters. We're both we are the moms of sisters. So we're Sister Moms.
Susan [00:13:13] That closeness and that feeling.
Hillary [00:13:15] Susan feels that Sister Moms family closeness.
Susan [00:13:20] You know, we certainly feel that with with Cathy and Emily. And, you know, they're they're as much a part of our family gatherings as as any other member of our family would be. And sometimes even more so because they're just down the street from us, really.
Hillary [00:13:35] Susan and Carol Ann and Cathy are a short drive away from each other, and Emily and Cara live pretty close to each other as well.
Cara [00:13:43] So I think that in terms of the biggest impact, having Emily be around and in my life has been a huge, huge thing.
Susan [00:13:56] Cara and Emily have managed to really nurture a nice relationship with each other. You know that they're friends, but more than friends, you know, we can, you know, sort of miss out with with Sammy, you know, that she's sort of pulled away and is doing something different. I don't know if it's because Sammy has her own siblings, you know, and maybe that need to connect with a sibling wasn't as strong. I mean, she was definitely really into it in the beginning. And who knows? I mean, life goes on, you know, and things change and, you know, people come around.
Sammy [00:14:31] I'm not exactly sure how it happened that I'm not as tight with them, but I think part of it is that I have my brother and my sister and Emily and Cara were both raised as only children, and they don't have other siblings. And so there's a bond that matters to them and it matters to me. But like... no it matters to me. Period. Full stop. And there's no one like my brother and my sister who I was raised with and who I've shared my whole life with and I share my moms with. You know, it's it's just a totally different thing. I don't have a very good explanation for how it's different or why. But the closest I can get to is because of the sibling thing.
Hillary [00:15:12] It may be the sibling thing, but it also could be timing. Cara, Emily and Sammy and Matthew and Rebecca all met around the time that they were in college. And then they finished up college, figuring out next steps, first jobs, grad school, moving around, settling down and with significant others and marriage, new families were taking shape.
Sammy [00:15:33] It's interesting to try and find language that exists to map onto these relationships. And ultimately, that's a project that's pretty futile. This is just a different kind of family. It's a different kind of relationship.
Hillary [00:15:47] Sammy has attempted to map out the relationships.
Sammy [00:15:50] I'm often trying to figure out how to draw a family tree without Gerald being at the center of it. But everybody is still connected. Who's connected. If only because I think that that's like an important feminist project, you know, to have, like the man of these families of women not be at the center of the family tree.
Hillary [00:16:07] Sammy has really tried drawing this tree in many different ways and still hasn't found an alternative to Gerald being at the center.
Sammy [00:16:15] It's really hard, but it's possible.
Susan [00:16:21] He does not feel like he's the center to me. The center is the kids. And even the twins... You know, I think that part of it is that it might be that there's this geographical distance and that to me, it really does feel like it's the three of them, Sammy, Emily and Cara, who are at the center. You know, instead of like a family tree. I think about it more like planets orbiting that we kind of orbit around them, you know, and we kind of go off and, you know, maybe like comets and have, you know, some sort of other adventures, but that we tend to kind of come back to center. And that that center for me is the kids.
Sammy [00:17:08] A project that I've tried to do is figure out like how will I explain who my sperm donor siblings are to me or who their moms are to me. And because of death in my family, I grew up without any answer uncles. And so I feel, especially in those early years, those first years that the moms of my sperm donor sisters were like aunts, like they weren't related to me, but I was the sibling of their children. And so if I needed something, they would be there. So that felt nice. I felt like, oh, maybe this is what it's like to have an aunt or an uncle or something. And then I also don't have any first cousins. And so with my sperm sisters, I thought, oh, maybe this is like what it's like to have a first cousin because I knew it didn't feel like having a sibling to me. It wasn't like my brother and my sister. And I really chew on this question of how much blood matters in family because I share blood with my birth mom and my sister, but then not with my brother and my other mom. And in some ways that doesn't matter at all. And in other ways that really matters. And in some ways, I hate that it matters. And in some ways I feel embarrassed that it matters or I feel disloyal to my mom and my brother because it matters or I feel too traditional when like I like looking at photos of my mom when she's younger and she looks just like me. And then I feel like, oh, God, am I like conventional and traditional because I like that. And then I have these sperm siblings. I have these four other people in the world who are my siblings, like biologically as much as my sister is, but emotionally not nearly as much as my brother and my sister are. They're like strangers who I share blood with. But also more than that, like it's not quite as callous as that. And then in some ways that it doesn't matter. It's like my other mom, she and I have this way that both of our brains work. And when I listen to her think about things, I'm like, oh, that's how I learned to think that way. And that's like so powerful to me, or she's strong in this way that I feel like she taught me that kind of strength. And it never has crossed my mind that she's not really my mom. Like, I guess what I'm saying is that as much as I do feel connected based on blood with the people that I share blood with, it's not that I feel disconnected from the other people in my family with whom I don't share blood. I think ultimately family is who shows up and who's really there every time solidly.
Sharon [00:19:46] Family means so many things, but in this context, it means the kids you were raised up with, you know, raised with and the people you grew up with and share history with. I was excited about the idea of adding these other kids to it, the ones through Gerald and a little bit that happened, but not really. And yet still saying that I would do anything for those other kids. And they are adorable and sweet. I run into them every so often. If we all said, let's have a get together, I'd be right there. You know, I miss them somewhat like that. But so it took the shape that it was going to take and it might take a different shape. Again, who knows?
Emily [00:20:38] So when I describe who's in my family, it really changes and depending on the situation and who I'm talking to, I still get into the protective habit of just mentioning my parents and keeping it gender neutral in new situations, because I don't know how much I want to say. I continue to try to be blunter and braver about it more often and saying my moms as clearly as I can. But growing up, I always kept things pretty gender neutral. And family for me is the people who are really willing to go out of their way to care for you in different ways. I have friends that are absolutely as close as siblings could be, and I consider them absolutely part of my family. I also have my husband and his family, he has a sister who now lives closer. And I feel like I'm still learning to be part of a family that also now has a dad in it with his father. That is a learning curve for me to kind of understand that and feel comfortable like in that relationship too. You know, and Tristan and I want kids, too. So, you know, we hope that that continues to expand and grow and holy cow, our kids are going to have so many lesbian grandmas, it's going to be wild. I don't know how many lesbian grandmas a person can have before it's too many. I don't think maybe there's not a number, but like they may be bordering on that number.
Nancy [00:21:53] And it's funny with gay families, I think, because, you know, you're kind of on the fringe. It's like you have your traditional birth family, but then you have your family of friends, that network of other LGBTQ people who are part of your life and a part of your kid's life. As Gerald came into the picture, family just got to be so much bigger. Someone asked me one time about, you know, do you feel like jealousy that, you know, like Gerald? What? I love Gerald. I feel blessed to know him that, you know, my daughter's donor dad. It's like a connection that you feel that is unlike others. I mean, I have no blood relationship, but I knew immediately I was family. Maybe it's that connection you have. All of us feel that connection. That's family that brings us all together. It's that love, that common bond. You know, sometimes you can have a family that's traditional and you don't feel that love and connection that you do from something like this where the emotion was just so intense for everybody to just finally meet all of these people and have this common bond with these kids that we love so much.
Cathy [00:23:01] Family was one thing as a child, the safety and the parents protecting us and, you know, taking care of us. But I feel like as I got older, I felt like we had to create our own families in some ways, especially, you know, as you are off on your own and before you have children and all this. And I think that was feeling comfortable being with other people, other LGBT people. And then I think I realized that family was my family of birth, my family I gave birth to and the family that I've kind of like love and share my life with. That's my family. It's a group of people that I share my life with and I consider them my family. And so there's a group and I include, you know, Emily's parents, Emily's sisters. I love them. You know, I don't know the twins that well. I really haven't had, like, real contact with them that much. They seem like wonderful young people, but I don't really know them that well because I just haven't had as much contact. But, you know, I feel like the other two. I mean, you turn around, I look at Cara, I think, oh, my gosh, it could be Emily. You know, there's just this and there's so much alike and there's a lot of mannerisms between Sammy and Emily, too. There was so many things. It was just like, I love Sammy. I mean, she's this free spirit. She's this is amazing, brilliant woman. And I wish I had more contact with I don't really see her at all anymore, but I really would. I mean, I really think she's something she's an extraordinary woman. I know when I look at some of these women and what they've done and, you know, artistic talents that these people have or, you know, written books and done these, I know they've done some amazing things, you know, these people. But my amazing thing is, is having Emily. That's what, you know, she's made me a better person. Emily's made me a better person.
Cara [00:24:56] I thought that it would just be if Gerald had had a family of his own. It didn't occur to me that I would have these other families that looked just like mine. I definitely feel like this is for life. These additional family members. It has shifted the way that I think about my family here because I now fit into a larger fabric of people that I'm biologically related to. I don't know if it's necessarily changed my definition of family, but it certainly expanded. You know, my family has expanded to include them.
Susan [00:25:38] My idea about family has certainly expanded. You know, I feel as close to Cathy as I do to my own sister and in some ways even closer, you know, part of it is proximity. But, you know, there's just there's a shared experience. We were both elementary school teachers. We both really wanted to have children and more the moving force in our relationships with making that happen. You know, so there's there's a lot of similarities there.
Carol Ann [00:26:06] I mean, other than to say that family is really important to me. I mean, you know, it's like our relationships, the three of us, Susan, Cara and I, you know, they're changing. The nature of our relationships have changed somewhat as she's gotten older. Obviously, she's 30 years old now, you know, so. Yeah, I don't know what else I would say about that.
Collette [00:26:38] The definition of family has changed for me over time, I, growing up had a great family, have have a great family, so I've really felt that my immediate family was family. As I've gotten older, for example, our friends here, Patty and Pearl, we've known for over 30 years and they have really become like sisters to us. And, you know, like I said, I get together with Gerald once a year when I'm back on the East Coast. It's it's not just a thing that happened. And it's they I in my heart, they're part of my lives. All of them.
Laura [00:27:16] Mostly I feel like, OK, like when the four of us are together, we'll say to each other, oh, you know, just so great being together, our family. You know, we've said that since they were little. We still say it now when the four of us spend time together. But Patty and Pearl have always been part of our family. And my sister and her wife also feel like family to me. And I'm sure on Collette's side there are also people who feel somewhat close. So I don't know, especially now that my parents are gone. I sort of think of my family as the four of us, plus Patty, Pearl and Lisa and Karen. You know, that's just kind of how I feel. And now Matthew and Rebecca each have a significant other, and I'm more than happy to have them included, too. I'll tell you one thing. I feel I used to feel that it was so important to resolve all your issues with your original nuclear family. And when people weren't talking to their siblings, whatever, I had this strong desire to say, work it out before you die. You know, that kind of feeling. You know, I don't have that feeling at all anymore. It's completely gone. Now I feel like, you know, life is short. Be with people who you feel loved by and who you love. And if it didn't work out with people in your nuclear family, then don't sweat it. You know that it's funny because I -- complete turnaround from how I felt when I was younger.
Rebecca [00:28:46] I well, I ooh I don't know how to answer this. Um, family has never... Blood relatives, has never defined family ever. Um, I'm closer actually, with a lot of relatives who I don't share blood with, but they're still related to me. Like Laura's family. I was very close that I mean, my her mom was my grandmother, but we weren't blood grandmother and granddaughter. But I was very close with her. She was my real grandmother because Laura was is my real mom just the same as Collete is my real mom. So it was more and not necessarily who you're blood related with, but who you feel closest with and who you share the connection of love with. I guess that's what defines family to me. I when I mentioned my family, I don't mean to include them. By definition, they are family. Yes. And I do love them sometimes. I do feel, I guess a little bit of regret that I don't consider them like family. I mean, they are family and I do consider them family. But I don't like I don't call them up on the phone, you know, I don't reach out to them. I don't have personal relationships with them. So it's a different. It's just different. But when push comes to shove, I really I would introduce them as like my biological father and his wife, um, but I would never use the term father. To me he's not my father, you know. Like by blood he is, but not in the way that most. I don't know. This is awful. I'm so sorry.
Matthew [00:30:43] My definition of family has been pretty much been the same. The only difference is I used to believe that it was two parents who love each other and respect each other. And if they decide to have children, the children are part of their family as well. Now, I just kind of see it as two or more people. They don't have to be parents. People who are together, who love each other and respect each other regardless of their sexual orientation or anything. I consider them family, I mean, you know, they are they are, you know, half my DNA, you know, like I said, I've only seen them a couple of times. So I'm not I'm not really in contact with them. But, you know, if they need anything, I'll always be there for them.
Gerald [00:31:57] Family, to me, is knowing that no matter what happens, there's somebody out there, people out there that love me and that I love and we love each other as as who we are. And there's a lot of feeling, you know feelings for for each other that that's there, as people and friends and part of the family. That's how I see them, they're part of my family. And that's what's going on and that's what's happening. I'm astounded at how wonderful, beautiful the we are as a as a group. You know, the kids are just marvelous. I just love them to death. And I'm not the most communicative of of persons. It's I don't know if it's something that is because my dad was kind of the guy that sat back. He didn't really talk to us as kids and that might be some part of that. But I would write letters and emails and all the kinds of stuff, and I haven't done that for a while. And I miss it. I also miss talking to them and seeing them. I miss them a lot.
Matthew [00:33:08] I I'm not sure if he sends emails. I mean, admittedly, I don't really check my email as much as I should. I've I have multiple emails. I have a personal email that I just kind of use to subscribe and I have my work e-mail. So but no, he does. I've, I have not given him my I haven't really. I just changed my number. I haven't given really anybody my new number, but...
Gerald [00:33:39] I may not be with them all the time, but they'll always be part of me and that that's something that's always going to be there and I'll be a part of them and that they will respect and love each other as much as we possibly can. We may not communicate a whole lot, but it's there and I think about the kids every day. I do every single day. I always do. And I because I wonder whatI might have done that Matthew, doesn't want to know me. But that's his choice. Not mine.
Matthew [00:34:10] Well, I know Gerald is he's a very respectful person, and he did he did tell me that, you know, he's not going to force any kind of relationship on me that I wouldn't want, you know, so he did he did kind of leave it up to me, you know, for our relationship. And it is just because I'm so busy that I don't really keep in touch with any of them. Yeah, I mean, you know, it would be nice to keep in contact more. I know, I know I'm very busy and I tend to kind of just focus on what I need to do in order to get to where I want to be. I don't really tend to keep in touch with a lot of people. So I think the reason why I'm not really in touch with them is probably, you know, because I like the way I am and, you know, my focus is. So it's definitely not because of them. It's just kind of my own personal, personal way that I'm living.
Hillary [00:35:16] Ann Hartmann says each discovery contributes to our knowledge and each way of knowing deepens our understanding and adds another dimension to our view of the world.
Cara [00:35:31] I mean, everything about this experience, finding out about Gerald, my half siblings, it's been so positive, it's only added to my life and it's just so exciting. And it's definitely been a journey getting to know everybody.
Emily [00:35:52] Cara and her mom's and Gerald and Gerald's wife, brother and cousin all came to my wedding. And it felt important for them to be there because they're my family now, too. And I really feel that way.
Cara [00:36:03] I mean, I know that we all you know, we'll always have each other and, you know, in whatever format that is. Yes. It's kind of crazy thinking that I have these people for life now, but I feel like I do.
Rebecca [00:36:19] As of now, I don't have that much contact with them, maybe as we get older, we will, or maybe things will change over time. I mean, if we were to start getting in contact, you know, be it would be lovely. And, of course, I wouldn't turn them down. They're all great people.
Sammy [00:36:41] And I guess it remains to be seen like how my relationships with my sperm siblings will change over the course of our lives.
Hillary [00:36:51] In the past few years, Sammy has been leading a community oral history project of over 50 interviews with young adults raised to gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans and queer families, focusing on growing up with queer family in the 80s and 90s. She has plans to turn these oral histories into a book.
Sammy [00:37:08] In the process of writing. I've tried to kind of eke that out and figure out what like what's the what's the synthesis here? What's the thesis? What's the thing? I'm trying to say and I don't know that I have one. I think it's just that part of the truth of all family and for me, part of the truth of queer family is that our language doesn't express who we are to each other and that what matters, I think, is the people who, like, show up to your birthday parties and who answer when you call them, you know, and who are there, who you share things with. And I think what queer family teaches for those looking in and for myself and the people that I've talked to looking inside of our own histories, is a sense that we can actually choose the people that we show up for and we get to choose who is in our family. And that's a like a such a beautiful thing. You know, I think that's the real gift and the real the real lesson.
Hillary [00:38:27] Rashomon is produced by me, Hillary Rea. Music in this episode is by Paul Defiglia. Theme music is by Ryan Cullinane, courtesy of the Free Music Archive. Podcast artwork is by Thom Lessner. Thank you to Anny Celsi for recording Laura Collette, Matthew and Rebecca out in California and a huge thank you to Sammy, Sharon, Emily, Cathy, Nancy, Cara, Susan, Carol Ann, Collette, Laura, Matthew, Rebecca, Dorothy and Gerald. It's a lot of people and it's a lot of tracks in Hindenburg. You'll get it if you get it. We have one more episode left in season two. It is a secret surprise bonus episode coming to you in two weeks. In the meantime, I would love if you shared this season with a friend. Now that the serialized story has wrapped up, you can listen to it straight through like one big binge listen so you can do that, you can tell friends to do it that way, whatever you want, just spread the word. You can follow the show on Instagram and Twitter and you can visit the show's website, Rashomon podcast, dot com, subscribe on Apple podcasts, follow on Spotify rate and review, share all the things. Thanks for listening. See you in two weeks for one more episode.